Cavaliers outlast Tigers
Teams combine for 42 turnovers
By Andrew Joyner / Daily Progress staff writer
January 21, 2004

The new UVa band debuted at University Hall on Tuesday night. It sounded loud, harmonious and seemingly in tune. It was a pleasant diversion from the game, which often resembled the scratching of fingernails across a blackboard.

Virginia outlasted Clemson 61-50 to notch its second straight win and second ACC victory before a crowd of 7,129 that should be applauded for making it through the 40-minute affair.

“It certainly wasn’t pretty. It wasn’t picturesque. … I thought we played good defense. Again, it wasn’t pretty but we’re not going to win pretty. We’re not that kind of team,” said Virginia coach Pete Gillen, whose team improved to 12-4 overall, 2-3 in the ACC. “Any win in the ACC is a valuable win.”

Pretty it wasn’t.

The teams combined to commit 42 turnovers, miss 20 of 46 free throws and make just seven of 36 3-point attempts.

For the game, Virginia shot 44.7 percent for the game compared to Clemson’s 31.6. The 61 points also tied for the fewest in a Virginia win in Gillen’s six-year tenure.

Nearly all those final figures represented a leveling off - for the better - from a first half that at best was ugly and at worst dreadful. In the opening 20 minutes, both teams made more turnovers (11) than field goals (UVa 9, Clemson 8) as they were deadlocked at 20 at the intermission. The Cavaliers shot 39.1 percent in the first half compared to just 25 percent by the Tigers (8-8, 1-4 ACC).

“It was certainly a while ago that I played in a game like that. Well, at least a first half like that,” said freshman forward Donte Minter, who started his second straight game and finished with 10 points. “At one point, it was pretty close to halftime and the score was like 13-12 and I said, ‘Man, this is a slow going game.’”

The pace in the second half didn’t increase from tortoise to hare but eventually one team - Virginia - found a little offensive rhythm.

Two treys by J.R. Reynolds were the bookends to a 12-4 UVa run that gave the Cavaliers a 41-35 lead with 7:44 remaining.

Reynolds, in his fourth career start, finished with a career-high and team-high 11 points, seemed at times the only player on the floor to locate his shot.

“J.R. Reynolds was terrific for us tonight. He was great,” Gillen said.

Reynolds biggest shot of the evening would come later.

After Clemson came back to tie the score at 43, Devin Smith delivered a 3-pointer to give the Cavaliers back the advantage. Then, with the 3:07 left and the shot clock tumbling toward zero, Reynolds launched a high-arching, 25-footer that swished through to give Virginia the 53-45 advantage. The Tigers would get no closer than six the rest of the way as the Cavaliers finished the game connecting on six of their final eight attempts from the line.

“They were in a zone and Coach told me to get to the top of the key but I was just trying to get to the open spot,” said Reynolds, who was 3 for 4 behind the arc. “I just saw the shot clock running down and tried to get it up.”

Added Clemson coach Oliver Purnell: “That was pretty key. We showed them zone and he just backed up and took the shot we wanted him to take and he knocked it in.”

That shot capped off what was a strong evening for Virginia’s freshman. The quintet of Reynolds, Minter, Gary Forbes, Jason Cain and T.J. Bannister combined for 34 points, 11 rebounds and seven assists. During one stretch, the freshmen scored 24 of Virginia’s 27 points.

“Our young guys really stepped up. I don’t want to count on the freshmen a lot of times. We had three or four in there at times. … J.R. was terrific and Donte made some big, big shots,” Gillen said.

Notes. Gillen started Reynolds, Billet, Jason Clark, Smith and Minter. That pushed a slumping Derrick Byars to the bench and kept Elton Brown out of the starting lineup for the second straight game. Byars, who had combined for seven points in his last four games, finished with two points and zero rebounds in 11 minutes. His first-half layup did snap a 0-15 skid from the floor. … Brown played 21 minutes and had six points and four rebounds. … Clark had zero points, three rebounds and fouled out in 15 minutes.

 

Reynolds breaks out, gets it done
By Jerry Ratcliffe / Daily Progress sports editor
January 21, 2004

All season long, Virginia fans have been waiting on freshman deadeye J.R. Reynolds to light things up. What better time than Tuesday night’s game against Clemson when things were dragging along at a painful-to-watch pace?

Nearly 27 minutes into the game, the visiting Tigers leading 29-27, the Roanoke product began to feel the heat.

Coming out of a time out, Virginia found Reynolds open near the perimeter. Bullseye. The score was tied at 29-all.

A minute-and-a-half later, another time out. Same play: Reynolds open on the perimeter. Cha-ching. A 3-pointer that put Virginia ahead 32-31.

What no one expected was fellow freshman Donte Minter, a player not known for his scoring ability, finishing off a 9-2 Cavalier run with a pair of free throws and a left-handed baby-hook in the lane for a 36-31 lead.

Something to shout about

On a night that was more about defense and survival, the offensive spurt was so unexpected that it was kind of like the reaction from the snail that hitched a ride on a turtle’s back. Wheeeee!!!!

It was enough to cause Clemson to call two timeouts in an attempt to temper what no one would have previously thought could be slowed down.

Still, the Tigers, who had won three of the previous last four matchups against Virginia, managed to knot it at 43-all with 5:35 to play.

Minter and Reynolds rode to the rescue again. Minter hit two more free throws and a baseline jumper before the final media time out at 3:09. With UVa leading 50-45, would Coach Pete Gillen dare go to J.R. again on an inbounds play?

Clemson coach Oliver Purnell hoped to catch the Cavs off guard and came out in a zone, which really helped Reynolds.

“Coach told me in the huddle to go to the top of the key,” Reynolds said after Virginia’s 61-50 win. “But when I saw them in zone, I just went for the open spot.”

Nail in the coffin

That spot was about 25-feet out in bonusphere from where Reynolds launched the death blow. Virginia led 53-45 with three minutes to play and the Tigers were done for.

“We hoped he would make a play,” Gillen said. “He got open and hit a tremendous shot. I felt he was in a pretty good groove and I felt comfortable getting him the ball. I feel comfortable with the ball in his hands.”

For the record, Reynolds scored a career-high 11 points on a 4-of-5 shooting night (3 of 4 on 3s). He also had three assists, including one he whipped from the perimeter to an open Gary Forbes inside, and three steals.

That’s really not lighting it up in Reynolds’ book. After all, we’re talking about the guy who broke Oak Hill Academy’s 3-point record last season when he made 14 of ‘em and left the game in the third quarter.

Still, it was a confidence booster for both Reynolds and Minter, who finished with 10 points as Virginia won its second straight ACC game and improved to 12-4 on the season overall.

Reynolds, who had hit 32 percent of his 3s on the season, said he had been taking it day by day, but admitted his confidence can only grow from the performance. The last three from so far out had confidence dripping off it all the way to the basket.

“I knew the shot clock was running down and so I really wasn’t aware of how far out it was ... it was in my range,” Reynolds said.

According to those who have followed his career from Roanoke Catholic to Oak Hill, J.R.’s range is just this side of heaven.

Minter, that’s another story. His range was thought to be a couple of feet at best until last night.

“I think I kind of lull teams to sleep,” said the Fork Union product. “Sometimes they just kind of forget about me. Hopefully by that time, I’m in the flow.”

Gillen said weeks ago that he hoped his team played good enough defense and that his veterans showed enough leadership until the freshmen stepped up. In the two-game ACC win streak (the Cavs are 2-3), the coach’s wishes have come true.

Defense has been solid in back-to-backs against the Tigers and Florida State. He’s gotten good play from a couple of his upper classmen. The freshmen have come alive.

The next check on Gillen’s wish list - a win on the ACC road - may require a little extra.
 

Cavaliers take control in second half for win
By Dave Johnson
Daily Press
Published January 21, 2004

CHARLOTTESVILLE -- It wasn't a thing of beauty. In fact, it was every bit as ugly as Howard Dean's numbers in Iowa the previous night. But Virginia, winless in conference play going into this past weekend, was in no position to throw it back.

With both teams setting the game back a century or two, the Cavaliers broke free from a tie in the final 51/2 minutes to defeat Clemson 61-50 on Tuesday night in University Hall. Freshmen J.R. Reynolds and Donte Minter scored all 21 of their points in the second half as Virginia rebounded from an 0-3 ACC start with two wins in three days.

"It wasn't pretty, but we're not going to be a pretty team," U.Va. coach Pete Gillen said. "We're not going to win many games with offense. We're not that type of team. It wasn't picturesque, but any win in the ACC is valuable."

Virginia (12-4, 2-3) held Clemson to 31.6 percent shooting, three-tenths of a point lower than what FSU shot Sunday. The Tigers (8-8, 1-4) were 2-of-18 from 3-point range but managed to stay in the game thanks to 20 offensive rebounds and 18 second-chance points.

After hitting 11 of their first 35 shots, the Cavaliers made 10 of their final 12. The game was tied at 43-all with 5:33 left, and Devin Smith made a 3-pointer that sparked an 11-2 Virginia run. Minter had four points in that stretch, but the game's biggest basket might have been a 25-foot 3-pointer by Reynolds with 3:03 left.

The Tigers had cut the lead to 50-45, but Reynolds took the inbounds pass in front of Virginia's bench and beat the shot block by a second.

"I don't know," Reynolds said when asked how far he thought his shot was. "In my range."

Clemson coach Oliver Purnell could only roll his eyes. "Yeah," he said. "That was pretty key."

No less an authority than Dean Smith has long championed the notion of requiring freshmen to sit a year before competing.

If that were law, the Cavs would have been in serious trouble. Virginia's freshmen accounted for 27 of Virginia's 41 second-half points. During one stretch, they combined for 24 of the Cavs' 27 points.

"The story of the game was the freshmen stepping up and making big plays," Gillen said. "The young guys really stepped up."

Aside from Reynolds and Minter, Gillen lauded the defensive play of Gary Forbes, who had two steals and seven rebounds in 25 minutes. T.J. Bannister had a career-high five points, and Jason Cain added four.

"They did a great job for us," senior Todd Billet said.

"J.R. and Donte, in particular, hit big shots, but Gary caused a lot of turnovers with his defense. That's really good, because freshmen a lot of times only want to score. Gary created opportunities for us with his defense."

That's all Virginia had most of the night. The halftime score was 20-20, and the teams combined to miss 38 of 55 shots. Smith couldn't remember the last time he saw such a half.

"Probably Pee-Wee League," he said.
 

Cavaliers' Defense Paves the Way to Victory
Virginia Men 61, Clemson 50
By Jim Reedy
Special to The Washington Post
Wednesday, January 21, 2004; Page D09

CHARLOTTESVILLE, Jan. 20 -- Each missed shot, each turnover and each foul was a reminder that Virginia and Clemson were picked in the preseason as the two worst teams in the ACC. Their first meeting of the season wasn't aesthetically pleasing, but the Cavaliers made it a success by pulling away in the final minutes for a 61-50 win.

As in Sunday's overtime win against Florida State, the Cavs (12-4, 2-3 ACC) used their defense to compensate for problems on offense. The Tigers (8-8, 1-4) shot 32 percent, turned the ball over 23 times and finished with a point total that was both the lowest for a Virginia opponent this season and the lowest for an ACC team against the Cavaliers in Pete Gillen's 5½ seasons as coach.

"It certainly wasn't pretty, but we're not going to be pretty," said Gillen, whose team moved out of a tie with Clemson and FSU for last place in the conference. "We're not going to win games with offense. We're not that type of team. We're going to try to win with defense, and hopefully we'll get enough offense to get us by."

Virginia had 19 turnovers but scored nearly a third of its points in the final 5 ½ minutes, starting when Devin Smith broke a tie at 43 by hitting a three-pointer from the right side. Donte Minter scored on the next two possessions, giving the Cavaliers a 50-44 lead when they retired for a timeout with 3 minutes 9 seconds remaining.

The Cavs took the ball out of bounds after the timeout with only a few seconds left on the shot clock. Guard J.R. Reynolds (team-high 11 points) was forced to take a quick jumper from about three feet behind the three-point arc, but the shot was dead on, pushing the lead to eight.

"He just kind of backed up and took the shot we wanted him to take," Clemson Coach Oliver Purnell said.

Virginia, which had lost three of four before Sunday's 76-67 win against the Seminoles, likely will need more offense in the coming weeks as it faces six opponents who entered Tuesday's play with a combined record of 70-15. The Cavaliers play at No. 7 North Carolina on Saturday and at No. 10 Wake Forest a week later before opening February with games against Maryland, North Carolina State, No. 1 Duke and No. 11 Georgia Tech.

Virginia started the game with the defense-oriented lineup that worked best in Sunday's win -- Reynolds, Smith, Minter, Todd Billet and Jason Clark -- but early on the quintet had trouble finding an offensive rhythm.

As the half neared its midpoint, though, it became apparent the scoring problems could not be blamed on just a few players. Gillen cycled all his starters out and tried a fresh group, but still both teams labored toward one of the lowest-scoring halves of any ACC game this season. They combined to hit 17 of 55 shots in the half.

Clemson pulled ahead, 20-14, with less than three minutes left before halftime, but Virginia drew even with what passed for an offensive explosion in this game: a 6-0 run. Elton Brown posted up for a basket, and then finished underneath after T.J. Bannister penetrated and found him with a pass. Bannister picked off a pass on the ensuing Clemson possession and darted downcourt for a layup that sent the teams into the break tied at 20.

The teams traded baskets in the second half until Reynolds and Minter combined to hit five straight shots for the Cavs, pushing them to a 41-35 lead with 7½ minutes remaining. Reynolds bumped the margin to eight a moment later by finding Gary Forbes underneath for a layup.

Cavaliers Note: Derrick Byars continued his six-game slump, scoring two points in 11 minutes.

 

New band excites basketball fans
By Kate Andrews / Daily Progress staff writer
January 20, 2004

That’s the way, uh-huh uh-huh, they like it.

University of Virginia basketball fans greeted the school’s new band with praise at its debut during the Clemson game Tuesday night, which UVa won.

The 50-member group, a smaller offshoot of the forthcoming marching band, performed a smattering of rev-em-up collegiate sports classics and a couple of ’70s tunes, including KC and the Sunshine Band’s “That’s the Way (I Like It)” and Gary Glitter’s “Rock and Roll Part II.”

Carl Willis, a Virginia fan from Lynchburg, celebrated the return of live music to University Hall.

“It was dead without it,” he said. “They’re great.”

And Dennis Anderson, a guest relations staffer directing fans to their seats near the band’s section, said the musicians “sound good, real good. Maybe they’ll hype the team up a little bit.”

Wearing long-sleeved orange T-shirts and khaki pants, the band members themselves appeared hyped up, as they chanted and yelled for the team when not playing music.

With UVa’s dance team stationed in front of the band during the game’s first half, the entire section was more vocal than many other Virginia fans.

“We’re excited,” said saxophone player Melanie Barker, while noting that “It was a lot of work. We had a couple of practices, but we had to practice on our own a lot.”

Band director William Pease led the group in a concentrated, serious manner, often conferring with Dwight C. Purvis, another member of UVa’s music department who helped to direct the band Tuesday night.

About 20 members of the Pep Band, which used to occupy the new band’s seats, gathered across the court from the new group, cheering on the Wahoos and wearing their trademark orange vests.

The often controversial Pep Band was removed from playing at athletic events this school year after UVa received a $1.5 million donation to start up the marching band, which will make its debut at the first home football game this fall.

Nonetheless, some Pep Band members had kind words for the new band, although the evening was bittersweet for many of them.

“They sound good,” said Heather Welch, a piccolo player, “but it breaks my heart because they aren’t doing anything we didn’t do.”

Still, for a few people at U-Hall, the new band brought back some pleasant, if dusty, memories.

“I remember when they had the marching band years ago,” said guest relations staffer George Hale, who estimated that that band folded during World War II. “I’m glad to see it back.”

 

Clemson buzz

About 20 friends from Benedictine High School held up a sign before the game: “Benedictine loves Vernon.”

Clemson point guard Vernon Hamilton, who is from Richmond, Va., encountered a homecoming he would like to forget.

Hamilton had nine turnovers and no assists in 21 minutes Tuesday night. He was 1-of-7 from the field and said he felt himself pressing because he wanted to play well.

“It’s so disappointing looking back at how I played tonight. I had a rough time,” Hamilton said. “I didn’t gather myself after I had my first one or two turnovers. I didn’t relax.”

In the first half, he turned the ball over six times in 12 minutes, had no assists and missed all three shots he attempted. Hamilton committed three consecutive turnovers in one stretch and did not play for stretches late in the game.

“Vernon obviously put a lot of pressure on himself and had a tough ballgame,” Clemson coach Oliver Purnell said.

Entering Tuesday, Hamilton had 30 assists and 13 turnovers in his previous seven games. He has gone two consecutive games without an assist after having at least one in the first 14 games.

• New arena coming. Virginia is scheduled to move into the 15,000-seat John Paul Jones Arena by the fall of 2006. University Hall, the Cavaliers’ home for 39 seasons, has the fewest seats (8,392) in the ACC.

The new arena was named after the father of Paul Tudor Jones II, a 1976 Virginia graduate who donated $35 million to the project.

Once Virginia’s project is completed, Clemson’s Littlejohn Coliseum — built in 1968 and recently renovated — will be the third oldest arena in the ACC.

Duke (1940) and Georgia Tech (1956) have older facilities.

• Tip-ins. Clemson director of basketball operations Ben D’Alessandro was born in Charlottesville, Va., and attended Western Albemarle High School. He was a walk-on player for Pete Gillen at Providence and was a Virginia graduate assistant for him in 1998-99. ... Guard Chey Christie’s 3-pointer with 6:57 left in the game were his first points since the Florida State game a week ago. Christie is 3-of-17 from the field in the past three games. ... Chris Hobbs led Clemson with 13 points on 6-of-9 shooting.

— Jon Solomon
 

Familiar demons haunt Clemson
By JON SOLOMON
Staff Writer

CHARLOTTESVILLE, Va. — The night had the feel of an ACC Tournament play-in game. The arena was not loud, the teams totaled more turnovers than field goals and Clemson was on the losing end because of its offensive struggles— again.

Thanks to 23 turnovers and a season-low 31.6 percent shooting effort by the Tigers, Virginia squirmed out of a three-way tie for last place in the ACC with a 61-50 victory Tuesday at University Hall.

“It’s getting kind of tedious, all these turnovers,” forward Chris Hobbs said, shaking his head. “It’s kind of becoming a monkey on our back.”

Virginia (12-4, 2-3 ACC) outscored Clemson 18-7 in the final 5:17 after the score was tied. The Cavaliers overcame 19 turnovers by shooting 50 percent from the floor after halftime and by getting 21 of their 41 second-half points from freshmen J.R. Reynolds and Donte Minter.

Clemson (8-8, 1-4) fell into sole possession of last place, pending Florida State’s game Thursday against North Carolina.

Freshman point guard Vernon Hamilton had nine turnovers and no assists. The Tigers shot 2-of-18 on 3-pointers and 12-of-21 from the line. They endured stretches of 8:58 and 6:01 without a field goal.

“Our bad offense just put too much pressure on our defense to stand up to that,” Clemson coach Oliver Purnell said.

The Tigers trailed 43-35 with 7:08 remaining when they rallied to score eight consecutive points. Devin Smith answered with a 3-pointer for Virginia, which never trailed again.

Reynolds, who had all 11 of his points after halftime, sank a 25-foot 3-pointer before the shot clock expired for a 53-45 lead with 3:05 left.

“That was all him,” Virginia coach Pete Gillen said.

Fittingly, the score was tied at 20 after a first half in which the teams combined for more turnovers (22) than field goals (17).

Clemson shot 8-of-32 from the field (25 percent) and committed 11 turnovers. If not for 12 second-chance points, thanks to a 25-16 rebounding edge, the Tigers’ point total would have been much less.

Virginia managed to make 9-of-23 shots (39.1 percent) and was 1-of-9 on 3-pointers.

Neither team had scored 10 points until 9:06 remained in the half. Clemson went almost nine minutes without a field goal while committing eight turnovers butstill led 20-14 late in the half.

But the Cavaliers scored six consecutive points, four on easy layups inside, and another two on a fast-break layup off a Hamilton turnover, to tie the score.

“I really felt going into the half we had a chance to be up eight, nine, 10 points, which changes the complexion of the game,” Purnell said.

At one point, Clemson turned the ball over six times in 10 possessions, including three consecutive turnovers by Hamilton. Many of the mistakes were unforced for the Tigers, who are averaging 19.7 turnovers per game.

“The majority of our turnovers are us — us making the wrong decisions, us getting clumped up, us not being strong with the ball,” said Hobbs, a senior. “God, if we just cut those away we’d be winning. I’m sick of losing, bottom line. I’m tired of it. I’ve been here too long and lost too many games. It’s time for a change.”

Clemson has four days off before returning home to play Maryland on Sunday. A fourth consecutive appearance in the real ACC Tournament play-in game could be approaching.

“You’re either going to cry and go into a corner, or you’re going to step up like a man and show your face and play tough,” Hobbs said. “We’ve come to a fork in the road, as Yogi Bear would say. Which one are you going to take? We’ve got to pick the right one.”
 

U.Va. wins ugly affair
Reynolds and Minter pull Cavs past the Tigers in the second half
BY JEFF WHITE
TIMES-DISPATCH STAFF WRITER Jan 21, 2004
VIRGINIA 61 CLEMSON 50
INSIDE: Notre Dame defeats Virginia Tech 74-63. Page E5

CHARLOTTESVILLE - Last night's epic encounter between Virginia and Clemson at University Hall did nothing to dissuade those who believe these teams are likely to meet again in the ACC basketball tournament's play-in game.

Before a crowd of 7,129 that spent much of the game cringing at what it saw on the court, U.Va. and Clemson combined to commit 42 turnovers, brick 20 free throws and miss 65 field goal attempts, including 29 from beyond the 3-point arc.

"It wasn't picturesque," Virginia coach Pete Gillen said.

To the Cavaliers, though, the final score looked gorgeous: U.Va. 61, Clemson 50. That's the fewest points Virginia has surrendered to an ACC opponent in six seasons under Gillen.

"It certainly wasn't pretty, but we're not going to be pretty," he said. "We're not going to win games with offense. We're not that type of team. We're going to try to win with defense, and hopefully we'll get enough offense to get us by."

The victory was the second straight for the Cavs (2-3, 12-4), who left the Tigers (1-4, 8-8) alone in the ACC cellar. On a night when veterans Elton Brown, Jason Clark and Derrick Byars struggled - they combined for eight points - U.Va.'s five first-year players helped the team avoid a disastrous defeat.

"We just had to come out and not play like freshmen," swingman Gary Forbes said.

Guard J.R. Reynolds hit three treys and scored 11 points - both career highs - to lead Virginia. All of Reynolds' points came after intermission, as did all of center Donte Minter's 10. Forbes came off the bench to grab seven rebounds, block two shots and hand out two assists. Backup point guard T.J. Bannister matched his career high with five points and collected three steals, and forward Jason Cain scored four points in 10 minutes.

"We're all basketball players when we step out on the court," Reynolds said. "Whether you're a freshman or not, you've got to step up."

After Forbes scored off a no-look pass from Reynolds to make it 43-35 with 7:09 left, Virginia seemed poised to pull away. But the Tigers, who finished 2 of 18 on 3-pointers, got both of their treys during an 8-0 run that made it 43-43 with 5:33 remaining.

Clemson never regained the lead it had relinquished on Reynolds' 3-pointer at the 11:41 mark. Junior forward Devin Smith buried a trey from the right corner to make it 46-33, and Minter added two free throws after a Clemson turnover. The coup de grace for U.Va. came when Reynolds, off the dribble, drained a 25-foot jumper as the shot block expired to make it 53-45 with 3:04 left.

First-year coach Oliver Purnell could only shake his head when asked afterward about Reynolds' shot.

"He backed up and took the shot we wanted him to take, and knocked it in," Purnell said.

Clemson's freshman point guard, Vern Hamilton, suffered through a miserable outing in his home state. A former star at Thomas Dale and Benedictine high schools, Hamilton had nine of the Tigers' 23 turnovers. He went 1 for 7 from the floor and had no assists.

"It's so disappointing looking back at how I played tonight," Hamilton said. "I had a rough time. I didn't gather myself after I had my first one or two turnovers. I didn't relax."

Clemson won the rebounding battle 41-31 and scored 18 second-chance points, to only six for U.Va. But the Tigers shot a season-low 31.6 percent from the floor. Great Virginia defense or horrible Clemson offense?

"I think it was a little of both," Reynolds said with a smile.

Virginia, for a change, went into the break in high spirits. The Cavaliers outscored the Tigers 6-0 in the last 2:23 of the half to pull to 20-20. Things could have been worse for a Virginia team that missed 6 of 7 free throws and shot 39.1 percent from the floor before intermission.

Still, 20-20?

Smith chuckled when asked when he'd last played a half in which both teams were so offensively challenged. "I don't know," he said. "Pee Wee league or something."